1 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,360 The question is, what happens when Helge Fossmo is out of the picture? 2 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:18,200 Who's leading this congregation while Helge is in custody? 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,360 Let's try to work this out. We've got Kim Wincent. 4 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,200 He's been a principal since 1982. Emma Gembäck was a pastor for a while. 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,720 She's married to Peter Gembäck. 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,760 He's very present in the media for a while. 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,920 That's three pastors and one more, Johan Grimborg. 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,640 And there's Urban Fält. 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,080 He takes on a greater role now that Helge is gone. 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,240 - And there's Patrik. - He's not a pastor. 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,920 But he's married to Asa, known as the Bride of Christ. 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,640 - Everyone says Patrik is important. - That's right. 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,760 But Asa Waldau, the Bride of Christ, is the one in charge. 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,520 These are the people who are important now. 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,280 Thanks. 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,400 Why did you agree to be interviewed, Peter? 17 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Because I believe that we learn from history. 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,800 I think it's important that we open this up 19 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,800 and try to understand what happened. 20 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,240 I'm doing this because it might help someone. 21 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,440 To try to explain what Knutby was like. 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:39,840 You have a choice, either to walk away or take part. 23 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,920 An honest and open attempt to give an explanation, so we can move on. 24 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,600 I was part of an environment that had secrets. 25 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Why did we choose to lie? Did we think that we were lying? 26 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,440 To quote Jesus Himself, "The truth will set you free." 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,600 - Emergency 112. How may I help you? - I don't know. 28 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,800 I just came in here. There's blood everywhere. 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,560 In Knutby. 30 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,760 Shock and despair spread throughout the little town of Knutby. 31 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:19,920 The murder of a young woman and attempted murder of her neighbor 32 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,520 is in stark contrast to this quiet, peaceful community. 33 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,400 This is one of the most bizarre criminal cases in Sweden in modern time. 34 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,520 A web of religion, sex and cruel, callous murder 35 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,600 unprecedented in the judicial history of Sweden. 36 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:41,000 Who was the driving force behind this? 37 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,040 It's an important piece of evidence that has been manipulated. 38 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,280 It creates doubt for the public. 39 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,120 Is this actually what happened? 40 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,160 This is a difficult time, but we believe in God. 41 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,440 We're not giving up. 42 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:51,640 Helge and Alexandra were going to start a Bible School in Hong Kong. 43 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,120 I was going to drive them to Arlanda Airport. 44 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,760 I called to pick them up that morning. I went inside and I met Alexandra. 45 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,760 And she... Well, it's hard to explain. 46 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,480 I noticed something was wrong. 47 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:12,000 And then Helge came in. 48 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,480 And he says, "Something happened. We need to talk." 49 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,560 I was woken up in the night by the telephone. 50 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,880 I realize something's wrong 51 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,640 because she never usually calls me in the middle of the night. 52 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,560 She sounds terrified 53 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,720 and she says she's been attacked. 54 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,920 That Sara hit her with a hammer. 55 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,720 Alexandra went to bed. 56 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,960 And... hours passed. 57 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,400 I lay on the couch where I usually slept. 58 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:15,680 I had received a text message, "There is a time for killing. 59 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,560 There is a time to heal." 60 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,880 After that it said, 61 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,760 "Everything has its time, even this. Take this time that you've been given." 62 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:33,720 And I thought, "Does this have to happen? It's the last thing I want. 63 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,800 But if it has to happen then it should probably happen now." 64 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,920 And then... I do it. 65 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,960 I convince myself that this is right. This is what I must do. 66 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,800 If I do this, I have proved that I want to belong to God. 67 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,800 And I hit her. 68 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,520 She says ow and then she wakes up. 69 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,800 And then... I hit her a few more times. 70 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:18,640 She leaps up and says, "Sara, what are you doing?" 71 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,200 Helge doesn't say Sara tries to murder her. 72 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,760 He says that Sara went off the rails and attacked her with a hammer. 73 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,600 I can see that Alexandra has been crying, 74 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,880 but I didn't notice that she had any facial injuries at that stage. 75 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:44,600 As for what Sara did, it was concluded that she went off the rails. 76 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,240 I don't know exactly what was said, but... 77 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,840 If I remember correctly, I think that Sara was sent away. 78 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,000 So she... was put on a bus. 79 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,160 Sara was sent to live with her dad in Smaland. 80 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,560 We told her that this was not okay. Alexandra wanted to go to Hong Kong. 81 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,160 That's how we dealt with it. 82 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,360 We thought it was better not to involve the police 83 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,080 because what would happen then? 84 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,280 Those of us who have read it know the Bible is full of people 85 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,000 who have been persecuted for their beliefs. 86 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,480 "Kim Wincent talks about the incident in November 87 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,720 when Sara hit Alexandra with a hammer. 88 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,320 This happens just hours before Helge, Kim, Alexandra 89 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,640 and another congregation member were leaving for Hong Kong. 90 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,440 Alexandra was fit to travel even after the attack. 91 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:53,200 Kim Wincent says everyone agreed not to report Sara to the police. 92 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,480 They wanted to protect her, somehow." 93 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,040 So what you're saying is, if they hadn't taken the law into their own hands 94 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,400 and had reported this to the police, Sara would've been charged with assault. 95 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,040 And arrested. 96 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Mm... and the Knutby saga could have ended there. 97 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,320 Yes. 98 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,560 It was on January 10th this year 99 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,720 that the pastor's 23-year-old wife was murdered 100 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,040 and a 30-year-old man was shot and injured in Knutby. 101 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,880 A 26-year-old woman, formerly the children's nanny, 102 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,440 was arrested and detained. 103 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,400 She admitted to the police that she committed both crimes. 104 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:34,440 She lived in the victim's home 105 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,640 and is suspected of attacking her with a hammer last year. 106 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,520 The 26-year old nanny confessed and was taken into custody, 107 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:45,160 along with a pastor, who is the murdered woman's husband. 108 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,400 He's suspected of murder and conspiracy to murder. 109 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:04,200 A woman from Smaland phones and asks 110 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,880 if we're interested in some phone numbers that she has. 111 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,440 She said that in late September 2003 112 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,080 she had tried calling Sara on that number, 113 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:23,680 but the person who answered was a pastor in the congregation, 114 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,800 who said he had taken the phone from Sara. 115 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:33,840 That's when the penny dropped. Helge had that phone. 116 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:40,200 Should I start with my little...? 117 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,600 I have decided that... I can no longer avoid 118 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,400 this issue with this prepaid phone 119 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:52,280 and I know that you know that I've had it since Sara left. 120 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,200 And I would like to explain... 121 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,560 why I didn't admit to this earlier. 122 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,600 What happened was, 123 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:13,640 after Sara had attacked Alexandra with a hammer, 124 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:20,240 Patrick and Urban came by and it was decided that Sara should leave Knutby. 125 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,480 And she did. 126 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,640 She understood that she would not be shown mercy. 127 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,320 She was, frankly, going to hell. 128 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,640 I found this rather difficult. 129 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,280 I knew that they would not like me keeping in contact with her. 130 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,680 I told her, "I don't know if I can have contact with you 131 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,160 when I come home, because they probably won't allow it." 132 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:53,960 Then she told me that her prepaid mobile phone 133 00:10:54,160 --> 00:11:00,080 was still in the house. We could use it to stay in touch. 134 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,800 I told Patrik and Urban that I would do as they asked. 135 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:12,640 I agreed not to contact Sara, but I found that very hard. 136 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,640 She had lived with us for over two years. 137 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,720 And we loved her. We didn't want... 138 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:27,240 I didn't want her to fall apart and that's why we stayed in contact. 139 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,960 Then this murder and attempted murder happened 140 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,440 and I was in contact with Sara even that very morning. 141 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:47,520 That is to say, when she was carrying out her crimes, from what I know. 142 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,400 And this terrified me, naturally. 143 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:57,160 Because I realized then that I might be implicated in some way... 144 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,440 Excuse me. 145 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,960 I realized then that I would be implicated in this murder. 146 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,720 I was terrified that I would end up in the situation that I'm in now. 147 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:16,280 So I decided that I would say that I had no contact with Sara. 148 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,920 If I told anyone I would be in trouble. 149 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,440 And also... 150 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,800 this may sound a little odd, 151 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:30,160 but any contact with Sara would lead to a worse reaction in Knutby 152 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,480 than my affair with Anette. 153 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,520 Because Sara was looked upon as someone 154 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:41,080 who was doing the devil's work. 155 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,200 And in that case I was... 156 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,960 Well, I had joined with evil forces. 157 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,080 We talked to him about taking over your old SIM card. 158 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:10,200 Did you and Helge have any plans to stay in contact, despite all of this? 159 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,600 Did you discuss this before you left? 160 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,200 No, we hadn't decided anything. 161 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:22,600 But Helge knew more about the situation. 162 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,640 Even though he was surprised he could see 163 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,640 that I didn't have any obvious personal motives. 164 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,080 He was very perplexed by all of this 165 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,760 and he felt bad for Alexandra. 166 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,680 At the same time he could see how distressed I was. 167 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,040 During this time did you continue to receive anonymous text messages? 168 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:57,040 Yes, I did. I received a text message from Helge that said, 169 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:03,120 "You got an anonymous text message. 170 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,840 I'll forward it to you." 171 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:12,360 That's how I received the text messages. 172 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:18,720 The first text message that I received a few days after this happened said, 173 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,520 "It could have been over in 12 hours. 174 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,960 But it's still not too late for you. 175 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,280 You can still do what you have to do." 176 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,480 Was this a text message that Helge forwarded to you? 177 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,120 - Yes, it was. - While he was in Hong Kong? 178 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,280 - Yes. - Mm. 179 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:47,080 - But this was one perpetrator's version. - How do you mean? 180 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,520 Her statements regarding the text messages... 181 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,440 it's possible that they existed, but we didn't have them. 182 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,640 Sara says that you received anonymous text messages 183 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,920 that you forwarded to Sara's phone. 184 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,640 Yes, I've sent text messages to Sara's phone, 185 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,520 but I neither received nor sent anonymous text messages. 186 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,560 - And you're sticking to that? - Yes, I am. 187 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,400 So the messages that she received on her phone from your phone 188 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,720 - are messages that you sent to her. - Yes. 189 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,640 "The interrogator asks Sara why she deletes all of these messages. 190 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,840 Sara says she was worried when police came to her home." 191 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,040 Exactly, and in a later interrogation she says that Helge told her 192 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,560 to delete the text messages. So she changed her story. 193 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,960 We mustn't forget that at this time 194 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,960 it wasn't possible to recover deleted text messages. 195 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,840 If we are to believe Sara, then Helge knows these messages don't exist. 196 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,280 He saw her delete them. 197 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:59,080 Yet when he's interrogated, he hears the exact words. 198 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,400 The police tell him, "This is what Sara said." 199 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,240 Helge must have thought that they found his mobile phone. 200 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,320 I have another question. Where is this prepaid phone now? 201 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,160 - Don't you have it? - No. 202 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,080 - Really? - I'm asking you where it is. 203 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,720 But the police don't have this prepaid mobile phone. 204 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,360 - But they have the telephone traffic. - Yes, a crazy amount of traffic. 205 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:42,920 In less than two months they exchanged over 2,200 text messages and calls, 206 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,160 an average of 44 per day. 207 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,360 They even had contact on the night of the murder. 208 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,280 We know that Alexandra was shot in her bed by three gunshots. 209 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,840 We also know that Helge is not woken up by this. 210 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,920 - You didn't wake up? - No. 211 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,360 Because he's sleeping in the next room. 212 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,920 But we know that Helge is woken up 213 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,320 by a text message from Sara because he replies to it. 214 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,960 The ringtone volume can be set to gradually increase. 215 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,480 It gets louder and louder and then vibrates. 216 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,800 That's indisputable. Furthermore, we know 217 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,480 that Sara and Helge spoke to each other minutes before Daniel was shot. 218 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,160 She asks, "Can I call you?" And I answer yes. 219 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,400 - You're in agreement. - Fantastic! 220 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,360 In total agreement. 221 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,360 But this doesn't prove he murdered his wife, 222 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,360 or was involved in the murder of his wife. 223 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,440 It's problematic for Helge that he was in contact with the person 224 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,520 who shot these two people, in between the acts. 225 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:57,440 She calls me up and seems quite... excited or upset. 226 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,280 Or very... confused, in any case. 227 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,640 She rambles on about doing what she was supposed to do. 228 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,320 She believed she had appeased God. 229 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,400 She asked me, "Didn't Jesus say... 230 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,040 These things you should do without neglecting the others"? 231 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,320 And I said, "Yes, that's right." And so on. 232 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,400 And she rambled on... 233 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,320 about the widow and the Book of Judges, 234 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,600 "Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. 235 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,000 Knock and it will be opened to you." And so on. 236 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,840 Regarding this phone call, Sara says that she asked you 237 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,840 if she should knock on the door or the window. 238 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,720 And you advise her to knock on the door. 239 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,920 Yes, she's talking about a door, but it's not... Well... 240 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,760 I don't agree with you there. 241 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,600 And then the police become interested in another fact. 242 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,640 Helge has in fact lost a wife before. 243 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,520 His first wife, Heléne, 244 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,560 died in unclear circumstances. In the same house. 245 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,880 Four years prior to the Knutby case, Heléne Fossmo died in the same house. 246 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600 This information came out in new interrogations. 247 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,760 How could one wife die and then the second, both in the same house? 248 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,120 If someone is convinced he was behind the murder of his second wife, 249 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,680 then he could be implicated in the murder of his first wife too. 250 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,680 And vice versa. 251 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,240 What could the motive be? 252 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,360 Well, for both cases, to get rid of a wife. 253 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,400 For a pastor in this congregation, divorce is not an option. 254 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,280 I'd like to talk about the events in 1999 regarding Heléne. 255 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,320 At what point did you realize that Heléne was dead? 256 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,640 I realized it as soon as I picked her up out of the bathtub. 257 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,240 It's difficult to explain, but I got no reaction. 258 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,160 She was gone. There was no... 259 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,720 There was no life in her body. 260 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,600 This happened in 1999, a few days before Christmas. 261 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,320 Helge says that he and Heléne have stomach flu 262 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,280 and that's why they stay in their bedroom all day. 263 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,200 Helge says that Heléne told him she was going to take a shower. 264 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,840 - And he went back to sleep. - That's right. 265 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,080 So Heléne goes to the bathroom here. 266 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,200 A congregation member, Samuel Frankner, comes by. 267 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,680 - That's right. - He heard they were sick and visits. 268 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,400 He goes straight into the bedroom. 269 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,000 - Helge wakes up. - That's right. 270 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,600 They hear running water and then the chaos begins. 271 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,080 Could you tell us in your own words 272 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,600 what happens when Samuel comes in? 273 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:30,400 Samuel comes... I wake up. He's in the room and talks to me. 274 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:37,120 He sat up quickly, got out of bed and went towards the bathroom. 275 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,760 I can see that he's concerned and I don't understand why, 276 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,760 but he started calling out her name and... 277 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,520 He rattles the door handle. I think I took the initiative 278 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,080 and ran downstairs where I knew that I would find some tools. 279 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,360 On my way back up, I heard him screaming. 280 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,000 When you're knocking on the door 281 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,000 and you can hear water running in there... 282 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,000 what are your thoughts on what has happened? 283 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,680 I'm afraid that she has drowned in the bath or something like that. 284 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:31,640 That she's hurt or... It doesn't appear that she's... She doesn't answer... 285 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,800 So maybe she's not... 286 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,360 conscious. 287 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,360 So I became scared. 288 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:59,440 Love divine, so great and wonderful 289 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,440 Deep and mighty, pure, sublime 290 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,160 Coming from the heart of Jesus 291 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,720 Just the same through tests of time 292 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,160 Welcome to the Kristinehamn Pentecostal Church. 293 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,480 I'd like to tell you about our congregation here. 294 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,960 We've been here for over 75 years and that's a long while. 295 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,640 We've continued growing during this time, 296 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,480 because people like you and me have come to believe in Jesus... 297 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:42,480 He was an energetic, funny and happy guy 298 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,520 who liked to joke around and have fun. 299 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,720 He liked to play pranks on people and stuff like that. 300 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,560 A young man they remember as funny and charming. 301 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,240 He also had a strong need to assert himself 302 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,920 and could have severe mood swings. 303 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,880 And we saw God's angels there 304 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,040 They said you mustn't be afraid 305 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,240 This is the place where Jesus lay 306 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,760 Helge has always been dominant. 307 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,880 We've talked to close friends who've experienced similar things 308 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,480 with that personality... 309 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,360 They say you can't always influence your children 310 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,480 no matter how much you want to. That's the way it is. 311 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,880 They came home and said that they were getting married. 312 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,880 They had already booked the church and everything. 313 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,920 We didn't know anything. We felt we had to go along with it. 314 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,000 We had no contact with her when she was living in Knutby. 315 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,040 When we visited her, there were always people there. 316 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,240 We were never alone with Heléne and the children. 317 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:08,120 There were always people around as if they were watching us. 318 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,920 We were constantly under observation. 319 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240 We weren't allowed to come to their church services... 320 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,840 We weren't even told about the youngest child's baptism. 321 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,120 We weren't told about it. 322 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,240 Family occasions, for instance. We were never told anything. 323 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,680 They just happened. 324 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,240 But back then, did you ever discuss these worries with your daughter? 325 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,720 No, I never did, because it was far too sensitive. 326 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,280 There was never an opportunity. We were never left alone with her. 327 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,680 That's the way it was. We talked to her on the phone, 328 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,240 but all the kids were always running around at the same time. 329 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:14,640 So we never had the closeness that we wished we had. Sadly. 330 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,640 It feels like we lost Heléne twice... 331 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:24,200 First to Knutby and then when she lost her life there. 332 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,720 So... 333 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,280 That's the way it is. 334 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,040 We got a phone call from Helge. 335 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,560 He was screaming down the receiver, "Heléne is dead! Heléne is dead!" 336 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,720 I think it was the day after that happened... 337 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,120 Helge tells us all that he dreamt several nights in a row 338 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,720 that Heléne would die. 339 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,440 We were at Asa and Patrik's house. 340 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,640 Helge had told Asa earlier. 341 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,200 And Asa said, "You should share this with the others." 342 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,280 I was there with a few others at the time. 343 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:21,560 He was sitting on the floor and he told us about this dream. 344 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,840 I think that we believed that this was some kind of... nightmare at first. 345 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,240 And then when this happened, it was as if the dream confirmed... 346 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,320 Well, that the dream came from God, or... 347 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,760 I don't know how we reasoned, to be honest. 348 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,120 Perhaps God can speak through dreams. 349 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,760 Was God preparing us for something? Was he telling us this would happen? 350 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,520 - Like a kind of prophecy? - Yes, a prophecy. 351 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,800 Like some kind of omen, or whatever you might call it. 352 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:04,040 So it was quite frightening actually. What's going on? 353 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,240 Why is God allowing this to happen? 354 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,080 What I remember of the conversations at the time, was that he was seen 355 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,480 as a kind of martyr, a kind of Divine human being. 356 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,880 God is testing him with all these things. 357 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,000 He was so strong and he must go on. 358 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,720 No one should get in his way, and he would... 359 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,640 As far as I can remember, he was back on his feet quite quickly again. 360 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:40,080 We had a Christmas concert the day after this happened. 361 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,240 He was there, sitting in the first row. 362 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,200 He and Asa cleared out Heléne's wardrobe almost immediately. 363 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,720 They sent her clothes to a charity shop. 364 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680 Their bedroom was redecorated soon after her death. 365 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,960 Asa had decided that. 366 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:06,680 Asa said, "If Helge is to survive this we need to make changes. 367 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:12,760 He can't sleep in the room where his wife just died." 368 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,200 I helped with the wallpaper. 369 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,000 It was a case of moving on, quickly. 370 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,520 That's my memory of his... 371 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,480 And I do remember that he cried too. 372 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600 But that was just after her death. 373 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:34,120 Father, I love You. I thank You for being You. 374 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:40,400 We come to you now to remember Heléne. 375 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,440 You know all things. You know everything. 376 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,320 You know the circumstances. 377 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,400 It was like a light went out in a way. 378 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,280 So much more than Heléne died in that moment. 379 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,920 It was as if... 380 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,120 "Hang on, we're in paradise. What's happening?" 381 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,640 I remember the feeling that death had moved in to Knutby. 382 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,720 Yes, we talk about longing to come home and our homeland. 383 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,840 We believe in heaven. That's part of our Christian faith. 384 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,280 When Heléne died 385 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,720 it was almost as if what he had described had been fulfilled. 386 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:32,520 From what I remember, we talked about heaven being a much better place. 387 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,600 From 1999 to 2004, death seemed to permeate everything. 388 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,320 Are you so well prepared... 389 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:50,160 that in your heart you can call out, right here, right now 390 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,440 come and take me home? 391 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,920 And you would not fear it? 392 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,120 I'm not talking about the fear of God. That fear is good. 393 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,320 I'm not talking about saying something lightly. 394 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:08,160 Can you, in your heart, say, "Come and take me home now? 395 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720 I would sincerely like to meet Him." 396 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,600 It wasn't, as people have suggested, that we had a death wish. 397 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,720 That was absolutely not the case. 398 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,760 But if someone died there was... something positive to it. 399 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,600 You left this earth and it was harder for those left behind. 400 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,320 Dying is not so bad. You go to heaven. 401 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:40,880 So I think that death became... nothing to fear. 402 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,160 The big question is, Helge, why all this contact with Sara? 403 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,280 1,200 text messages, 13 hours of phone calls, 404 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,880 in the month of December alone and only about... 405 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,080 Bible quotes and various issues regarding the Bible? 406 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,400 Her well-being, her future, what she's going to do... 407 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,680 Where she will apply for jobs. If she would live in Knutby again. 408 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:18,680 - If she would marry one day. - But Sara is very specific. 409 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,720 So I have to ask you, Helge, 410 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,200 were you ever aware that Sara was going to kill Alexandra? 411 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,240 No. 412 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,200 You're still receiving text messages telling you it's not too late. 413 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,040 You're told to finish what you didn't do the first time. 414 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,520 Do you still feel you must carry it out? 415 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,120 Yes. 416 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,000 And the strange thing is, I never talked to anyone- 417 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,800 and yet I'm still getting text messages that reflect exactly what I'm thinking. 418 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,560 Did you talk to Helge about these thoughts 419 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,720 when you were having these long conversations? 420 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,880 Yes, I did. 421 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,680 But still, as I see it... 422 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,800 You talk about what she says as if that is the truth 423 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,120 while what I'm saying is lies and you don't know that. 424 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,880 You just state things, "It was an anonymous text message." 425 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,840 "According to her", is what I say. You don't have to comment... 426 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,720 Coffee time. 427 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,400 You were present during interviews with Sara, weren't you? 428 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,920 I was there a lot in order to certify what Helge said, 429 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,400 to see if I could learn more. 430 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,200 When I was present in the interrogations with Sara 431 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,320 were very laid back. 432 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,520 They took place in the psychiatric hospital in Huddinge. 433 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,000 Why was it impossible for Sara to believe 434 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,080 that Helge was sending her those text messages? 435 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,400 Because she adored Helge. 436 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,000 Helge was as close as Sara had ever come to God. 437 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,440 She was in love with God's right-hand man. 438 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:38,160 I prayed... to God a lot for our leader Asa. 439 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,720 And so did Helge. 440 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,760 In the spring of 2001, it became more intense. 441 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:54,920 I think that Helge became more intense in his friendship with me. 442 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,960 He came round to mine and Jonatan's house, to see me. 443 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:07,080 I thought it had to do with... our prayer duties. 444 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:13,480 Everyone in the congregation prayed for Asa and the other leaders. 445 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:18,400 And at that time, I think that Helge and I... 446 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,200 were specially chosen to pray. 447 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,320 But I also noticed that Helge... was interested in me. 448 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,280 He looked at me in a way that he hadn't done before. 449 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,600 And when we talked he was very loving towards me. 450 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:40,920 SARA & JONATAN MARRIED IN 12 AUGUST 2000 451 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,560 It's been said that Sara and Jonatan were seen 452 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:47,320 as the perfect couple for a while, but why didn't it work out? 453 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,240 Sara and Jonatan were assigned to each another. Asa was involved in that. 454 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,880 I don't think they were happy. Sara at least wasn't. 455 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,480 And then Helge came along and took Sara for himself. 456 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,680 In the beginning, it was some kind of... 457 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,600 I'm quite sure he had clear intentions. 458 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,880 This is church lingo, but we had what we call prayer nights, 459 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,800 which meant that I was awake until early morning. 460 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,400 Where did Sara sleep during this time? 461 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,480 When she slept, she slept in the bedroom. 462 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,120 - Together with you? - Mm. 463 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,880 Alexandra slept in another bed. 464 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:45,200 After a while... maybe, we decided to make a pact 465 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,320 that was required. 466 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,840 It would be an act of obedience for God. 467 00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:00,000 And we should have sexual intercourse. 468 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:07,160 And... I realized then that I was in love with Helge. 469 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,120 I didn't think this was fair to Jonatan. 470 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,400 I wondered what was going to happen. 471 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,520 And... After a while... 472 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,960 We realized... 473 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,960 It was actually Helge that... 474 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,080 He thought that we would get married in the future. 475 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,960 Helge and Sara become inseparable and almost untouchable. 476 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,040 They are on a spiritual level that we barely understand. 477 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:48,320 They talk about a quest for a higher love. 478 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,280 Did anyone suspect they were having an intimate relationship? 479 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,440 No. That would be out of the question. 480 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:05,520 We believed that they were close in their spiritual quest... 481 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,840 Helge said that he needed her there. 482 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,480 However, it appears that they did discuss the possibility 483 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,200 of a romantic relationship earlier. 484 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,480 He talked to me when 485 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:27,840 he wanted approval for his relationship with Sara. 486 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,160 We have some information here. 487 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,440 Patrik Waldau says that, in the summer of 2002, you told him 488 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,520 that God had said that Sara would be your wife. 489 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,960 Did you tell Patrik Waldau that God said that you and Sara would marry? 490 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,400 No, I don't think I said that God said. 491 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,720 I shared with him... 492 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,000 I sometimes wondered if it might happen. 493 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,800 It seemed to emerge 494 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,480 that Sara would be Helge's new woman. 495 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,200 And then it immediately stopped. 496 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,200 They told people about it, including me. 497 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,600 It was completely stopped in its tracks, 498 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,360 because there was no reason why they should have a relationship. 499 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,600 He's a pastor 500 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,760 and it's unfaithful to say that he was going to marry someone else. 501 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,280 When it came out, especially when Asa found out 502 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,600 it was met with a resounding no. 503 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,320 This won't work. It is totally wrong. 504 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,600 "Helge, go to Alexandra. Sara, go back to your husband. 505 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,280 This is not okay. We don't make any exceptions here." 506 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:59,280 What did Alexandra say about this? Did she know about it? 507 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,800 No. 508 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,080 You talked to Asa and Patrik and a few more people, but never Alexandra? 509 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,000 No, I didn't. 510 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,160 How did you think you were going to solve this one? 511 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,160 Did the feelings you had disappear as quickly as they came? 512 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,280 No, not suddenly, but they disappeared. 513 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,840 So Sara and Helge have a night-time sexual relationship. 514 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,240 They call it a spiritual quest for Asa's sake. 515 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,920 Alexandra has to move downstairs, out of the bedroom. 516 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,480 As I understand it, the congregation knows 517 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,000 that she spends nights in Helge's bedroom. 518 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,760 And they know that Alexandra is not sleeping there. 519 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,480 She's sleeping downstairs. 520 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,320 - Yes, in this bedroom. - That's actually Sara's bedroom, 521 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,840 here Helge's wife Alexandra sleeps more regularly. 522 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,320 Until Anette comes into the picture. 523 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,280 Mistress Anette, yes. 524 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:12,320 Okay, so you were living with Alexandra, 525 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,960 Sara and your three children. 526 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,280 But a problem arises, a new woman comes into the picture. 527 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,800 This creates a problem, obviously. 528 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,280 Well? 529 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,320 Yes. 530 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,400 What was going on in your head at that point? 531 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,600 How would you solve this situation? 532 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:51,640 These three women had slightly different... 533 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,680 I'll ignore that what I was doing was immoral. 534 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:02,040 I'll be quite frank. These three women meant different things to me. 535 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:10,240 Alexandra... was more like a good friend or sister 536 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:16,600 than a woman you share your life and bed with. 537 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,120 With Sara, I knew somehow that it was just a matter of time 538 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,240 before she would have to leave. This was something... 539 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,880 that everyone wanted to end because they didn't want her there. 540 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,480 Sara was, for the most part, a mistress... 541 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,040 just for sexual pleasure. 542 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,920 Anette was much more than that. 543 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,720 And this meant that... 544 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,840 Sara was no longer 545 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,560 as close in that way, or as important anymore. 546 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:23,040 I asked Helge, if Alexandra goes to heaven, 547 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:29,600 if her life on earth is over, I asked him if would remarry. 548 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,560 I asked him if he knew who he would marry. 549 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,600 And then he said that he'd had a dream. 550 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,200 He had a dream about gravestones. 551 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:47,240 One particular dream was about Alexandra's gravestone. 552 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,000 And he dreamt about another headstone. 553 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,560 And... 554 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:59,800 Then as Daniel would also go to heaven, according to this dream, 555 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:04,400 Anette Linde would become his next wife. 556 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,040 How did you feel when he started talking about two gravestones? 557 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,280 - This was something new to you? - Yes... 558 00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:20,600 It felt... strange. 559 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,960 - Can we take a break? - Yes. 560 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,360 - Good. - We can take a break. 561 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,520 At 14:30. 562 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:56,240 On Friday we confiscated Sara's telephone again. 563 00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:01,960 We gave it in to a company that can, with the help of technology, 564 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,720 restore text messages that have been deleted from the phone, 565 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,680 but are saved on the SIM card. 566 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,160 - The news fell like a bombshell today. - It's interesting. 567 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:20,080 I've never heard of deleted messages being recreated before. 568 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:24,160 The SIM card analysis gave us seven recovered text messages. 569 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,720 The fact she could describe the messages was one thing, 570 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,440 but now we had proof. 571 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,240 The text messages correspond almost exactly with the nanny's statements. 572 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,280 This could prove crucial for the nanny's credibility. 573 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,680 And this proves that Helge had access to that phone 574 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,760 when the text messages arrived. 575 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,080 However, it didn't prove he had necessarily written them. 576 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:50,040 December 5. Time, 04:59.38, 577 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,320 "You need to make a decision and stop wondering about it. 578 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:54,960 Find a secure solution. 579 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,800 You will prove your love by freeing him. He needs that." 580 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:03,200 December 17, 2003. Time, 01:06.18. 581 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,280 "The first is a must. Do the second out of love. 582 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,600 It has to happen somehow. 583 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,760 Your selflessness would be to your advantage before Him. You can. 584 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,600 Time is passing and you cannot put it off. 585 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,320 Don't think so much. Make your decision 586 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,800 and find a secure solution. Find your way to peace, like his. 587 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,800 You have to let him know. 588 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,720 Leave him out of it, but he has reached his limit 589 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,800 and he needs to be seen. Act before it's too late. 590 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,200 Romans 6:23: 'For the wages of sin is death 591 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,680 but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.'" 592 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,640 New Year's Eve at 15.21. 593 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,360 "This is not your fault. There's still time. 594 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,080 For His sake, because He's pleading for you. It won't be too late. 595 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:52,520 You must take this to completion now." What should she take to completion? 596 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:57,200 Her faith, her conversion, her... 597 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,880 She has done nothing but believe since she was a child. 598 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,520 No, but she didn't believe that she could receive forgiveness. 599 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:10,360 You're reading this in a way that means you interpret it in one way. 600 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,200 - No, Helge. - Yes, you can't deny that, can you? 601 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,160 - I'm reading it. - You can't deny that! 602 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,800 I'm reading them the way Sara did in her statements. 603 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,160 - Yes, of course. - She recounted those messages 604 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,640 exactly as they were written. 605 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,800 - Yes. - That's what I'm saying. 606 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:38,000 But I have not told her to go and shoot two people. 607 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:45,280 She must have interpreted the messages in a way that she wasn't meant to. 608 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,160 Police in Uppsala are asking themselves if it's possible 609 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,680 that there were more people involved in the attacks, 610 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:07,680 or that others may have been aware of the murder plans. 611 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:15,320 Summer arrived and it's normal for most people to take holidays. 612 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,120 Both prosecutors took their summer holidays 613 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,920 and we had in fact had a long period of interrogations 614 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,480 that covered just about everything. 615 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,960 So there was nothing more to do. 616 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,080 What are the loose ends as you see them? 617 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:36,960 Well, the connection with Asa. Did Asa know anything? 618 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,120 - I love you all so much... - How do you mean? 619 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,320 I had to argue my case for quite some time to get an interview with Asa. 620 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:52,200 I wanted to conduct it simply because I knew the whole story. 621 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,040 But I wasn't allowed to conduct that interview. 622 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,040 It went to a then older colleague 623 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:06,800 who came out of his office after hours with Asa and he said, 624 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,640 "Oh, what a fantastic woman!" 625 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,280 And maybe she is. What do I know? 626 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,000 But that's not what I was interested in. 627 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,000 - What did you want to find out? - I wanted to know if she was involved. 628 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,400 Could this have happened beyond her sight? 629 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,800 Without her knowledge? 630 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,800 Is it possible that two members of the congregation get shot 631 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,040 without her knowing anything about it? 632 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,560 The person who knew everything about the congregation.