Sara, we have seen at times in your witness statements...
There are times you don't speak the truth.
Like at the beginning when you confess, you say you did it alone.
You talk about "a compelling feeling", because you want to protect Helge.
In later interrogations you mention "test shooting" your weapon.
The police asked if you had help and you said no, then took a break.
Then you said you want say it how it was and that others helped.
Then there's the map, of course, and the shooting distance.
They don't fit either, we wonder if you are protecting someone else.
- There were even more people? - No.
I don't know if there are more people involved in this.
That's outside of my...
I don't know if others are involved or not.
But I am not protecting anyone.
What are you thinking?
I never wanted, never ever...
I never ever wanted to kill. I didn't want to do it.
It was never... I really never wanted it.
But I was so... forced.
I had no choice, to do anything else.
It was Helge who forced me.
He used the fear that Asa had sentenced me to hell.
And he said that I must do this to get mercy from God.
- What kind of God? - Asa's other half, her betrothed.
Horribly evil God.
I call it the God of Knutby.
- Emergency 112. How may I help you? - I don't know.
I just came in here. There's blood everywhere.
In Knutby.
Shock and despair spread throughout the little town of Knutby.
The murder of the woman and the attempted murder of her neighbor
is in stark contrast to this quiet, peaceful community.
This is one of the most bizarre criminal cases in Sweden in modern time.
A web of religion, sex and cruel, callous murder
unprecedented in the judicial history of Sweden.
Who was the driving force behind this?
This an important piece of evidence that's been manipulated.
It creates doubt among the public.
Is this what actually happened?
This is a difficult time, but we believe in God.
We're not giving up.
PRAY OBEY KILL
EPISODE SIX THE EVIL GOD OF KNUTBY
Helge denied everything up to 2006. What happened then?
Helge was in Kumla Prison and he got in touch.
FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006
KUMLA PRISON
Since I left Knutby I've gone through quite a long process.
My whole persona that was distorted by an unhealthy sect culture.
Now I'm slowly recovering and I see things differently,
both my own role and the role of others.
I was living a lie. I don't want to do that.
Were there other members of the congregation involved?
Yes, that's what I intend to tell the police.
After a while in prison, I knew that what we were doing in Knutby was wrong,
but I was still very afraid of betraying my leader.
She made me promise before God that I would never disclose
that she was the one behind the text messages.
And she added that if I ever broke that promise...
I would lose my daughter like I had lost Heléne.
And in that world...
I took that threat very seriously.
Even if I understood that she didn't have any supernatural powers.
She's only human.
Even if I understood it intellectually, this fear was deeply embedded
in my whole soul.
I understand that this is difficult for the average person to take in, but...
This was the reality I had been living in.
So I didn't dare.
I've been accused because of a murderer's theory.
And I've been deceived myself and accused and left in fear.
Everything about the murder was an absolutely isolated incident.
There was only one person behind it.
A colleague and I went down to Kumla and what he wanted to confess was
that he ought to have known what was about to happen.
INTERROGATION HELGE FOSSMO
IN CONNECTION WITH THE EVENTS SURROUNDING
THE KNUTBY MURDER THAT OCCURRED 10 JANUARY 2004
After two interrogations Kenneth Agren said,
"We'll re-open the case and do it right this time."
He was convinced that there were more people involved, as he put it.
Yes, there are things I've seen in the investigation
that we haven't been able to follow up on which gives us reason to suspect
that there's a person or persons who know more about this.
I've read the interrogation notes from 2006 and he talks about checking out
Alexandra's mobile phone to see if there's anything there.
We went through what we had.
Our analysts looked into that and we didn't come up with anything.
He also says there was phone contact between him and Asa Waldau.
We didn't find anything to substantiate this either.
This is all the phone data that the police requested in 2004.
That's quite a stack.
Helge has been claiming since 2006 that in this pile
there's evidence proving he is not the real instigator.
He says that Asa sent him the texts that he sent to Sara.
- But the police look into this in 2006. - He suggests they did a bad job.
Of course he'd say that.
But didn't they find new evidence in 2006, new text messages?
Yes. At Helge's request, they went through Alexandra's phone data
and found text messages between Asa and her sister.
Asa writes that she longs to meet Alexandra in heaven.
But what that means is very hard to know.
Well, it has to do with death if they're to meet in heaven.
But we've heard people talk like that before.
Plan is, make a complete spreadsheet and see if we can find anything.
A digital spreadsheet would make it easier to see. Let's do that.
What would the motive be? Why would that person have a motive...?
These two people are related.
I think you would need to understand this sect's way of thinking.
First of all, death is not the worst thing that can happen to a person.
It just means that you go home early.
Text messages on Alexandra's phone have been restored
where Christ's Bride tells Alexandra she wants her to come home with her.
OH YES! I WANT TO GO HOME! IMAGINE HOW WONDERFUL IT WILL BE
TOGETHER IN OUR ETERNAL HOME!
IT WILL BE SO GOOD WHEN WE ARE ALL HOME!
And this is so two-sided. It's the best thing that could happen,
yet people were terrified. "Is it my turn next?"
But in a world where people are valued
depending on what they can contribute to the Bride of Jesus.
It's like role play in reality,
where certain characters can be removed if they're of no use or troublesome.
And this is a very, very distorted view of humankind,
but that's how distorted it became.
I'll start like this, "Hi, Asa. My name is Martin Johnson.
Berg and I have been investigating the Knutby case for the past two years.
You've chosen not to give us an interview,
so we don't know how this was for you."
Has she actually said no? She didn't even respond.
You can't write that, but write that we need to know.
"And you have a right to know what people say about you."
Not forgetting Helge's accusations, that she's the one behind the murder plans.
Precisely.
We know what she said about that before. But we can...
Write that we're now going through further evidence, those text messages.
There are things we need to talk to her about.
Helge now says that it was Asa who sent the text messages to him,
that he then forwarded to you.
I don't know if it was like that.
But...
I know they fitted very well
with what Helge and I talked about.
I would get text messages
about those details straight after.
To me, Asa is the Bride of Christ,
she sentenced me to hell.
I had no contact with her. I don't know what she knows about me.
But it was me and Helge who had the contact.
How much of this could you talk about at trial?
I am happy that I... could manage
to talk about Helge.
And then I said it like it was.
But then what I couldn't say fully...
It was the immense power Asa had.
Everything was about...
Asa's death sentence over my life.
Is Asa's responsibility legal or moral?
I don't know if she has a legal responsibility, I can't answer that.
But when you judge people so harshly...
how you treat others...
That's something you're responsible for.
I feel Asa has a moral responsibility
for how she has treated others.
Because Jesus hadn't come we lived in a state of anxiety.
And until she came to Him, we lived in a kind of pretend world.
And of course, weeks became months, and months became years.
Naturally, this was extremely frustrating for her
since she held on to this belief.
Because that's what it was, a belief about who she was.
Jesus didn't come to Asa because of something.
It was someone's fault, not hers.
People were hindering Jesus's return.
Many of us close to her were told that it was our fault.
The wall protecting her was not secure.
Since she was who she was, she knew best what Jesus wanted.
We used to joke about her not liking white, white was not a color.
She wanted color and life, that's what was best for all.
If she wanted to decorate my home she was giving me her blessing,
because she knows what's best for me, even if I might not see it.
No one would stand up to her and say, "But I don't want this."
Or, "I don't think that this is right."
If you did, you would be questioning the Queen of Heaven and that is wrong.
It started with her repainting Helge's house afterwards.
It was as if she was painting over the terrible things that had happened.
The first strokes of the paint brush on the new house.
This continued and escalated.
She was redecorating every house in the congregation.
It became an unspoken privilege that she was helping us.
I was thinking of putting blue around the window.
I used to imagine the congregation as her doll's house,
where she would put the dolls in the rooms she chose.
And she redecorated as she pleased and dressed them as she wanted.
And played with us.
Saturday was her party day, a time to celebrate.
Sometimes it was fun and we had a good time,
but very often there were many very negative conversations
about those who were wrong.
With a bit of luck it wasn't you, but someone else.
She was often angry with me because I was too uptight... or too scared.
"You look scared" and stuff like that.
- That's not a video camera, is it? - Yes, it's rolling.
If I was scared she must be nasty and she wasn't, so I was at fault.
- I can smell burnt popcorn here. - Sorry, it's my fault.
- Go into the light - I'll go into the light.
- Go under the sun. - Under the sun.
She wrestled me to the ground in the garden once
and sprayed me with the garden hose to make me less uptight, to relax a bit.
- She wrestled you to the ground? - Yes, it wasn't hard.
I wasn't resisting. She took hold of me and pushed me to the ground
and then she took the hose and sprayed me with water.
We had been engaging, for many years, in a battle
in our belief of who Asa was and where she was going.
We were fed this for such long time. So in the end, you just buy all of it.
"Okay, sure, yes." Your inner compass is wiped out.
When she had sprayed me and helped me up again
and said, "Everything's fine now." She was relieved. It felt good.
She wasn't cross with me any longer. It was worth it.
It was like that a lot.
You took your punishment because things got easier after.
Saying this doesn't feel right or I don't think that this is right,
you suppressed everything that involved one's self,
because that was one's ego and one's ego was wrong.
You had to get rid of that. It would die from your life anyway.
In the end there was nothing of one's old self left.
Daddy come! It is so much fun!
- Is it really fun? - Yes!
Daddy, come!
Spending time with family was selfish. Time should be dedicated to God's work.
If I wanted to spend a weekend at home I had to express this in a certain way.
It wasn't enough to say I wanted to stay home. She wanted you to say,
"I'd rather be with you but I think I need to meet some people."
I needed an excuse for not being with her.
Early on, my ex-wife became wrong according to Asa.
I loved her and I wanted it to work with us being together.
So I struggled for quite some time to get Asa to understand
that there was nothing wrong with her and then Asa said to me,
"Either you follow your ex-wife or you follow God
and following God is the same as following me. Which will you choose?"
My whole life was built on doing everything for God.
That's what I had been taught. I didn't want to stop following God.
Our relationship became platonic, if you could even call it that.
I was almost always away. I was on The Hill all the time.
So it was terribly difficult for her and for me too,
but nothing compared to what she went through.
I was doing what I believed then to be more important.
- Do you remember? Pizza. - Pizza!
This is my pizza that I will eat. It's huge!
- Kalle, do I love you? - Yes.
How much? That much? Do you love me?
This much.
- Do you? - Yes. As much as you love me.
How then did your relationship with your children change?
As I said, I was rarely at home.
There was a long period when I couldn't sleep at home.
I stayed with different people in Knutby, my brother, Peter and Patrik.
Because I was wrong and it was said that I spoiled my children.
I cared too much about them. So I was rarely at home.
I met them on Sundays, after the meeting up until...
I had to be back in Knutby by 6:00 pm, so just a few hours.
- Hi, Daddy! Come a little closer. - No.
But... Oh, I can see your hair really well, Daddy. I zoomed in.
So you could say that I was a coward
and chose, in a way, to let her go.
But my frame of mind then was, my only chance is to do as Asa says.
She was the one who determined the future.
It wasn't just for me. I would ruin things for her.
She told me that I was hindering the return of Jesus.
"He can't come back because you're causing trouble."
And she wasn't talking about just me,
but about all of mankind suddenly, and it was my fault.
It sounds so crazy now. This is what I believed.
I believed that I was the one hindering the return of Jesus
and doing so by caring too much about my family.
I look forward to a new tomorrow
Urban expressed, "In this battle, are you willing to go there?"
That's roughly how he began.
And in his house were people who were more familiar
with what his battle entailed, and were more involved in it.
That's where he approached me,
"You will become closer to me in the battle for Asa.
You have a more important role in Asa's meeting Jesus."
Jesus! Jesus!
Life! Happiness!
To cut a long story short, I was given an ultimatum.
Or rather, there's only one way, to end my relationship with Patrik
and have a relationship with Urban.
That's what's important for the final battle and Asa.
And with that battle, what do you do?
Well...
- This is so difficult. - I understand that.
But it...
There's only one way of saying it. In short, it was sex.
I can't say it another way.
When I realized that I was losing her, I couldn't do anything about it,
because we weren't married. There was no proof we were together.
I got a taste of what it was like to be in a secret relationship.
So I was powerless as I watched how she was taken from me.
That's how it was for me.
A few years into this, my wife was considered wrong.
And I was taught a lesson.
Asa demanded that I express enormous hate towards my own wife
and scold and humiliate her in front of Asa.
I was to physically throw Emma out of the house.
Peter came home only for short visits. He was away all the time.
I had to look after the house and kids. I was left alone.
There was no warmth, no love... It was just very cold.
I was thinking, "You must put God first and everything else falls into place."
Unfortunately, that was my way of thinking.
And this is so contradictory.
While I was feeling so bad in here there was nothing for me out there.
There was nothing to go back to. That was how I felt.
I had no friends left either.
I had been living with this anxiety for so long, I couldn't take anymore.
The only way for me to get on the right side of God was for Asa to say,
"It's all right now." But what if she never says that?
I felt she never would say that. It will never be alright.
Urban will never say it's all right.
I went through a long period of being constantly scolded.
I was told that I was worse than Helge.
I was filled with the spirit of the Anti-Christ that goes against Jesus.
It wasn't okay to take your life. That was worse than being wrong.
That would be irrevocable and you could never do anything about it.
But sometimes I drove way too quickly.
I thought, "If I have an accident and I die,
then I haven't taken my life. It's just an accident."
It was on a Saturday, if I remember correctly.
I went up to The Hill.
When I arrived, something had already begun.
We stood in their kitchen at the far end of the house
and they were all standing around me and being really aggressive.
And there's shouting and roaring,
"Pull yourself together. You need to shape up.
What's your problem anyway? Why are you like this?"
From their point of view, they're trying to get me to wake up.
And what Patrik says is, "Johan, straighten up.
Focus on God. Seek God. Raise your hands and praise God.
That's not too much to ask for. It's simple.
But you have to choose to do it."
I knew how Urban would behave in this situation.
I knew I'd be meeting him that night. I knew that he would corner me.
"Why haven't you sorted this out?"
While these thoughts are going through my head I become frustrated.
And I'm looking at Johan in the corner and I can see how dejected he is.
I hear Patrik say, "These are simple things. Raise your hands."
I tried to leave. I just wanted to get away from there.
And that's when I go...
crazy.
So...
I go for Johan and start slapping and punching him.
"Come on, get up!"
I... run.
Then Peter runs after me. I get in the car and start it. I'm leaving.
Some of us ran through the garden. Four or five of us ran after him.
He drags me out of the car.
I push him in the chest, "Come on!"
I had long hair at the time so he forces me to my knees and drags me in.
He crawls in and I grab hold of this ponytail
and pull him, or lead him like a dog on a leash.
"You will crawl to her. You will humble yourself."
So I had to crawl to her from the car and beg for mercy.
If Johan had managed to leave he would have been lost forever.
I'm thinking that I did something good. I just saved his life.
In one way, I convicted myself when I went to the police.
Three people in the well-known Knutby congregation
have been reported to the police, reports TV4 News.
Behind me is the building that the Knutby congregation uses.
This year, congregation numbers have dropped drastically
from about 100 to just 15 people.
The Knutby community speak of manipulation and violence,
where former pastor Asa Waldau the Bride of Christ, has a central role.
Her aggressive outbursts and circle of submissive followers
provoked distaste among congregation members.
Reports of beatings and sexual exploitation
are reminiscent of the sex scandals that Helge Fossmo was involved in.
The beginning of the end
was the conversation we have with this 17-year-old girl.
It was very clear that this was serious.
After an hour Urban comes out and he asks to talk to me.
He takes me aside and says, "There's big trouble. Stand by me."
Urban sat right in front of me, a half meter away, on the floor,
like a sad dog.
Then I explode. So angry with him, "What do you think you're doing?"
You've exploited a 17-year-old girl. Are you completely stupid?
This was the final straw.
This is Urban, a married man, a pastor
who has a sexual relationship with an underage girl for a battle for Asa.
She's just one of several women he has sexual relationships within this battle.
And this is what leads to the collapse of Knutby Philadelphia.
After 97 years the Philadelphia congregation in Knutby is dissolved.
The decision was taken by the few remaining members,
reports the newspaper, Dagen.
I have today begun legal proceedings against three former pastors,
in the now defunct Knutby Philadelphia congregation.
One is Pastor Asa Waldau, formerly known as the Bride of Christ,
who has been reported for assault.
There's been a culture of punishing members who've lapsed in their belief.
According to the prosecutor, the assaults had become so common
that the victims find it hard to remember specific incidents.
Well, it's so obvious when I meet former members and members now
that they weren't aware.
Sometimes one spouse didn't know what the other was doing.
Not their neighbors or friends either.
They were wrapped up in their own turmoil
with their own secret, dependent on those who were superior.
Many on the outside believed after Helge Fossmo and Sara Svensson
were convicted to prison and psychiatric care respectively
that this was a normal congregation and it wasn't.
The trial of three former Knutby pastors began in Uppsala District Court today.
Asa Waldau is charged with assaulting several congregation members
of the now defunct congregation.
The investigation was initiated when Pastor Peter Gembäck went to the police
and told them what he and the others had done.
A third pastor is charged with sexually exploiting a young girl
in the congregation what he called "care for the soul."
Go ahead.
Urban Fält has sexually exploited Plaintiff A who was 17 years old
and in a position of dependency to him.
Peter Gembäck's crimes against Johan Grimborg are as follows,
assault by slapping him across the face several times and by punching his body.
Unlawful restraint by holding him down
and while grabbing his hair, forcing him to crawl ten meters.
Asa... has in her home in Gränsta, Uppsala
intentionally assaulted Plaintiff B as follows.
Assault by biting her in the face. Assault by kicking her in the stomach.
Assault by taking hold of her head and banging it against the wall repeatedly.
Assault by hitting her on the head with a hairbrush and pulling her hair.
Asa... has assaulted Plaintiff A
by knocking her to the ground and stamping on her,
scratching her body and biting her neck,
pulling her hair, causing pain and redness.
I knew that Plaintiff A was waiting for me in Maria's bedroom
and I knew that I was thinking about her age and all that,
but I told myself not to think of her as too young,
or that she can't do what's expected of her because she's young.
All I remember is that I...
I have oral sex with her first
and then I pulled my trousers down, half-way I think,
and start having intercourse.
We're sitting on our bed, and this conversation goes on for hours.
I see the panic in her eyes, "No, I mustn't talk about this."
And I say: "What is it?" It was like she couldn't physically say it.
"I can't tell anyone this." She told herself,
"I did it for Jesus. I did this for Asa." This mantra.
The moment she put it into words,
when I hear those words, my whole world falls apart.
And then we talk about what to do next. What do we do now?
Our firm belief was that Asa is the Bride of Christ.
Since Asa is someone who loves the truth more than anything,
we must tell her the truth. So I run as fast as I can to Asa
and when I enter the room the first thing she says is,
"You've got to save Urban. I'm going to lose Urban too."
Meaning how she had lost Helge.
It's like a déja vu experience.
This is exactly the same as it was with Helge and Sara.
Helge had done nothing wrong. It was all Sara.
There isn't just one Sara now.
This 17 year old is to blame. The other women are to blame.
- Ester, here. A letter for you. - No.
Since you didn't want to be interviewed I thought you might read this letter.
You say that A could be exposed to murder. I don't understand that.
I explained that, considering our history,
to lie or go behind someone's back,
this has resulted in a murder. It's dangerous.
- Did you say that to A? - We talked about it.
How did she react to this information?
- I don't remember. - Have you no memory of it at all?
No, but this was something we talked about every now and then,
since we talked often about what had happened.
The murder in 2004 was like the basis
for everything we did and everything we were protecting.
But that was a long time ago. Why the need to discuss this with A?
We lived in the same context. Our line of reasoning was the same.
We're on our way home, time is running out. Jesus is coming soon.
It hasn't happened yet. That was my line of thinking.
This was our theory. The same explanation as we had then,
what we saw as a spiritual battle, so it wasn't strange that we said this.
Our theory was that this was a battle.
Back in 2003 it was as if any minute,
of any day the world could end.
It does something to your mind.
To live in Asa's world, to be accepted by her...
It is as if you have your loved ones, your family...
You have everything that you... want in life.
And to be wrong in Knutby is like losing someone.
Completely irreversibly.
It is horrifically strong emotions.
You do anything to be good again.
And this feeling, "I'll do anything",
is placed on Asa.
I think it was in the autumn or winter of 2015.
She keeps hitting me. She's in a rage. She's extremely angry.
I'm on my hands and knees. My earrings come flying off.
And I panic because she gave me those earrings.
So I'm lying on the floor. It's dark so I use my phone for light.
I think Kajsa helped me look for them.
And I thought that this was awful also.
Because suddenly, someone is kind enough
to help me search and I didn't want Kajsa to help me,
because I was nasty and stupid, terribly stupid.
Because Asa had to go to these extremes to chastise me.
And I didn't want Kajsa to have to help me because I was wrong.
I wish I could adequately describe the panic I felt when Asa beat me.
In one way it was... It wasn't the beatings as such.
The worst part was hearing you were wrong and nasty towards her,
refusing to relent, being rebellious.
She had at least five talks with me every day
about how disgusting I am, how awful I am.
I let her down and I'm a really bad person.
I had the chance of a lifetime. I was worthless.
I cry in my bed for a whole year. I can't get out of my bed.
I'm not allowed to go to a doctor. I'm not allowed to say I'm depressed
and that I'm not eating and that I'm not sleeping.
I'm banished from the community.
And then Asa takes my daughter.
I'm not allowed to keep her.
And she's not allowed to call me mum.
She's told that I'm a traitor, "Your mother is on her way to hell.
She's a disgusting person. You're not allowed to call your home, home."
And it's...
There is a view that you can raise your hand to others,
according to the Old Testament.
But there's a New Testament.
There's love and goodness in Jesus and God too.
Why not use that method instead?
Why not get the message across verbally? Why physical violence?
I don't know.
Have you difficulty controlling your anger?
No.
Kristina tells us here that you attack her.
The violence you subject her to takes her completely by surprise.
She says that you hit her on the head,
and that you scratch her body, bite her neck and pull her hair.
And she urinates on herself.
Are you saying that you didn't notice
how terrified she was that she urinated on herself?
- I didn't notice that. - Don't you remember it?
- I remember hitting her across the face. - You've said that, yes.
I don't remember the rest. I can't even relate to it.
When I was in the psychiatric ward, if anyone said anything bad about Asa...
I would start crying and say stop!
Don't say that.
She hears it. She can hear it!
And I was terrified. I thought she was beyond human.
Was there a moment you felt a release?
I remember...
I was locked away in an isolation room.
I couldn't meet anyone.
I couldn't meet anyone, no news,
no reading newspapers, no TV.
When I was completely alone in that tiny room,
it was as if it hit me then.
A nurse came in saying,
"I'm so sorry, Sara, that you can't join...
While the other patients are celebrating midsummer out here."
But there and then I felt euphoric.
I just felt, "Now, finally I'm free! I am free!"
In this room I am so free.
I can think what I want. I can do what I want.
I can be who I want.
I am free.
In this room I own myself.
Tell me, what have you found?
I can see how Asa, Helge and Sara communicated with each other.
But if Helge wants to use this as evidence
there should be a very clear link.
That just before he sends a text message to Sara,
he should have received one from Asa.
Yes, there should be a clear link
that he receives a message just before he sends one to her.
- Does he? - No, there's nothing.
- So he's lying then. - The problem is, we can't know that.
Because Asa had two mobile phones and one of them was never analyzed.
Okay, but we have Helge's phones.
We can check his incoming text messages.
I thought that too.
But I've now discovered, that 16 years ago, in 2004,
technology had its limitations.
To get a complete picture of text message exchanges,
you need both the sender and the receiver.
In order to find out if Asa texted Helge,
you would need the data from Asa's phone.
There could be more data on Helge's phone than we can see here
- since we don't have Asa's data. - Yes.
- That's crazy. - That's how it was back then.
We can request them. We have her number.
I did that. But the problem is, it's no longer possible.
They've been deleted?
The police didn't request the data back then.
I've even called the operators, but to no avail.
Yes.
You've compiled a digital version of this stack. You've been through it all.
We've gone further than anyone else in following this lead,
yet we still can't say what happened.
No, that's right.
Even though Helge says the evidence is there and we can't find it,
it still doesn't prove that he's is lying.
Correct.
Crazy.
There must be records of text messages from Asa somewhere.
This happened with Alexandra's mobile phone data that was restored.
There were texts from Asa that weren't in the lists.
For some reason, her text messages weren't there.
We don't know how much data exists.
We just know what we get from the police.
So we will never know if we got all the data,
or if it is complete. But based on what we have,
we cannot see any link in this data.
- No. - You can't...
We cannot say that there's systematic evidence
that Helge receives texts from an instigator that he then forwards.
We can't see that.
All the evil, the problems, the misery, the abuse,
everything that Knutby was accused of was because of me.
The interesting thing is, it got seven times worse after I left.
You would imagine when this kind of thing happens
that it would be an eye-opener.
That they would have done some soul-searching,
"What went wrong? What are we doing wrong?"
But by saying that Helge caused it all and now he's gone,
they didn't have to change anything.
And if it was because of me then it would not have continued like it did,
and escalated and gotten out of hand.
Nevertheless, it must be said that people stopped dying when
after this, so...
Seven times worse in one way,
but there were no further deaths. Do you understand what I mean?
Yes, it would have been interesting if there had been... serial deaths
where people were dying annually and this had ceased.
But that's not the reality of it.
In 2004, two people in this congregation were sick.
That is, Sara and Helge.
The others were in a completely different world.
But now a whole congregation is saying,
"We were a part of this sect. It was not healthy. It was not good."
And I'm thinking too, looking back,
we criticize the police because they don't address this sect issue.
But the question is,
what could they have said then if the police had asked them?
Many of the sect members probably wouldn't have been able to,
even if they tried, since they were sure that it was the next life that mattered.
They were on their way there.
But the pressure chamber is open now and this brain-washing is wearing off.
And now we have a group of people
that for the past 20 years in certain cases
have violated themselves, crushed their own egos and lost their sense of self.
And they have to find themselves again. The question is, what will they find?
What will they discover? What will be revealed?
The man charged with assault and illegal threats
was given a suspended sentence together with day fines.
The second man, for sexual exploitation of a dependent person
to a suspended sentence and 160 hours community service.
Two copies of the Knutby verdict, please.
The District Court has convicted the woman on eight counts of assault
and freed her on six counts of assault.
She was given a suspended sentence and 120 hours community service.
You mentioned that you don't have any contact with Asa.
What would you say to her if you could?
I wish she could understand how her words
have had consequences in so many ways.
I'm one person who paid a high price
by being in Knutby and following her.
In relation to my family, my old friends,
it has affected so many people, and I'm just one of say, a hundred.
And each one of us has a story to tell.
What's that?
A letter from Asa.
"Hi, you've been trying to contact me in different ways.
I'm not interested in taking part. It doesn't matter what I say anyway.
It will be edited to suit the media's story and commenting on
or denying other people's statements and experiences is meaningless.
It's impossible for me to explain something
that I'm processing and grieving over.
It would also mean exposing people I loved
and believed I was living in unity with. I won't do that.
Furthermore, addressing defamation and insults from Helge and Sara
is just too much. My family and I find this too difficult.
Yours sincerely, Asa."
Now we know where she stands in any case.
Yes and we must respect that. She's always said that Helge is lying.
I was completely prepared to...
If I had received a message saying shoot yourself...
I would have done it.
- Do you mean that? - Yes, I mean it.
I didn't exist.
I was... a shell, a robot,
I was annihilated, so... nullified.
A few years back, I thought about...
This is so difficult to talk about...
When I thought about Alexandra's reaction...
to the first shot...
There was nothing. Nothing.
Because it hit the hip and there was no reaction.
How can that be, I don't understand?
Now I can see and feel that...
Then I thought it was on me, but now, it's like...
Wait a second. How could it be? Why did she not move?
Wait, that she could have...? What do you mean Sara?
I don't know.
I don't know if she was alive or not.
Maybe she wasn't alive when I got there. I don't know.