1 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,280 Sara, we have seen at times in your witness statements... 2 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,920 There are times you don't speak the truth. 3 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,240 Like at the beginning when you confess, you say you did it alone. 4 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,640 You talk about "a compelling feeling", because you want to protect Helge. 5 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,320 In later interrogations you mention "test shooting" your weapon. 6 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:41,240 The police asked if you had help and you said no, then took a break. 7 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,320 Then you said you want say it how it was and that others helped. 8 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:51,200 Then there's the map, of course, and the shooting distance. 9 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,160 They don't fit either, we wonder if you are protecting someone else. 10 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,880 - There were even more people? - No. 11 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,560 I don't know if there are more people involved in this. 12 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,320 That's outside of my... 13 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:18,200 I don't know if others are involved or not. 14 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,640 But I am not protecting anyone. 15 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,960 What are you thinking? 16 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,000 I never wanted, never ever... 17 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,240 I never ever wanted to kill. I didn't want to do it. 18 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,840 It was never... I really never wanted it. 19 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,760 But I was so... forced. 20 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,600 I had no choice, to do anything else. 21 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,880 It was Helge who forced me. 22 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:09,440 He used the fear that Asa had sentenced me to hell. 23 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:17,800 And he said that I must do this to get mercy from God. 24 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:25,040 - What kind of God? - Asa's other half, her betrothed. 25 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,960 Horribly evil God. 26 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,960 I call it the God of Knutby. 27 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,160 - Emergency 112. How may I help you? - I don't know. 28 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,520 I just came in here. There's blood everywhere. 29 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,520 In Knutby. 30 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,200 Shock and despair spread throughout the little town of Knutby. 31 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,800 The murder of the woman and the attempted murder of her neighbor 32 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,720 is in stark contrast to this quiet, peaceful community. 33 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,800 This is one of the most bizarre criminal cases in Sweden in modern time. 34 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,240 A web of religion, sex and cruel, callous murder 35 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,400 unprecedented in the judicial history of Sweden. 36 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,800 Who was the driving force behind this? 37 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,320 This an important piece of evidence that's been manipulated. 38 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,000 It creates doubt among the public. 39 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,360 Is this what actually happened? 40 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,200 This is a difficult time, but we believe in God. 41 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 We're not giving up. 42 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,200 PRAY OBEY KILL 43 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,120 EPISODE SIX THE EVIL GOD OF KNUTBY 44 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,440 Helge denied everything up to 2006. What happened then? 45 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,440 Helge was in Kumla Prison and he got in touch. 46 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,120 FRIDAY 1 SEPTEMBER 2006 47 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:19,600 KUMLA PRISON 48 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:26,120 Since I left Knutby I've gone through quite a long process. 49 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:32,040 My whole persona that was distorted by an unhealthy sect culture. 50 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,400 Now I'm slowly recovering and I see things differently, 51 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,520 both my own role and the role of others. 52 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,040 I was living a lie. I don't want to do that. 53 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Were there other members of the congregation involved? 54 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,640 Yes, that's what I intend to tell the police. 55 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:57,520 After a while in prison, I knew that what we were doing in Knutby was wrong, 56 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,800 but I was still very afraid of betraying my leader. 57 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,160 She made me promise before God that I would never disclose 58 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,880 that she was the one behind the text messages. 59 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,560 And she added that if I ever broke that promise... 60 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,120 I would lose my daughter like I had lost Heléne. 61 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:34,280 And in that world... 62 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,880 I took that threat very seriously. 63 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,480 Even if I understood that she didn't have any supernatural powers. 64 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,440 She's only human. 65 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:54,040 Even if I understood it intellectually, this fear was deeply embedded 66 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,680 in my whole soul. 67 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:02,920 I understand that this is difficult for the average person to take in, but... 68 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:08,880 This was the reality I had been living in. 69 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,120 So I didn't dare. 70 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:21,320 I've been accused because of a murderer's theory. 71 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,880 And I've been deceived myself and accused and left in fear. 72 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,720 Everything about the murder was an absolutely isolated incident. 73 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,880 There was only one person behind it. 74 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,200 A colleague and I went down to Kumla and what he wanted to confess was 75 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,080 that he ought to have known what was about to happen. 76 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,840 INTERROGATION HELGE FOSSMO 77 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,360 IN CONNECTION WITH THE EVENTS SURROUNDING 78 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,040 THE KNUTBY MURDER THAT OCCURRED 10 JANUARY 2004 79 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,560 After two interrogations Kenneth Agren said, 80 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,320 "We'll re-open the case and do it right this time." 81 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,560 He was convinced that there were more people involved, as he put it. 82 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Yes, there are things I've seen in the investigation 83 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,920 that we haven't been able to follow up on which gives us reason to suspect 84 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:21,760 that there's a person or persons who know more about this. 85 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,120 I've read the interrogation notes from 2006 and he talks about checking out 86 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,440 Alexandra's mobile phone to see if there's anything there. 87 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,040 We went through what we had. 88 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Our analysts looked into that and we didn't come up with anything. 89 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:46,280 He also says there was phone contact between him and Asa Waldau. 90 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,440 We didn't find anything to substantiate this either. 91 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,120 This is all the phone data that the police requested in 2004. 92 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:54,640 That's quite a stack. 93 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,880 Helge has been claiming since 2006 that in this pile 94 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,640 there's evidence proving he is not the real instigator. 95 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,440 He says that Asa sent him the texts that he sent to Sara. 96 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,480 - But the police look into this in 2006. - He suggests they did a bad job. 97 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:13,960 Of course he'd say that. 98 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:19,360 But didn't they find new evidence in 2006, new text messages? 99 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,920 Yes. At Helge's request, they went through Alexandra's phone data 100 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,360 and found text messages between Asa and her sister. 101 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,640 Asa writes that she longs to meet Alexandra in heaven. 102 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040 But what that means is very hard to know. 103 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,440 Well, it has to do with death if they're to meet in heaven. 104 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,640 But we've heard people talk like that before. 105 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,680 Plan is, make a complete spreadsheet and see if we can find anything. 106 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,880 A digital spreadsheet would make it easier to see. Let's do that. 107 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,960 What would the motive be? Why would that person have a motive...? 108 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,680 These two people are related. 109 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:18,200 I think you would need to understand this sect's way of thinking. 110 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,200 First of all, death is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. 111 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,120 It just means that you go home early. 112 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Text messages on Alexandra's phone have been restored 113 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:38,200 where Christ's Bride tells Alexandra she wants her to come home with her. 114 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,520 OH YES! I WANT TO GO HOME! IMAGINE HOW WONDERFUL IT WILL BE 115 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,280 TOGETHER IN OUR ETERNAL HOME! 116 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,760 IT WILL BE SO GOOD WHEN WE ARE ALL HOME! 117 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,680 And this is so two-sided. It's the best thing that could happen, 118 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,240 yet people were terrified. "Is it my turn next?" 119 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,840 But in a world where people are valued 120 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,360 depending on what they can contribute to the Bride of Jesus. 121 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,160 It's like role play in reality, 122 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:13,480 where certain characters can be removed if they're of no use or troublesome. 123 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:19,040 And this is a very, very distorted view of humankind, 124 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,880 but that's how distorted it became. 125 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,640 I'll start like this, "Hi, Asa. My name is Martin Johnson. 126 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,800 Berg and I have been investigating the Knutby case for the past two years. 127 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,080 You've chosen not to give us an interview, 128 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,080 so we don't know how this was for you." 129 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,040 Has she actually said no? She didn't even respond. 130 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,000 You can't write that, but write that we need to know. 131 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,880 "And you have a right to know what people say about you." 132 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:58,120 Not forgetting Helge's accusations, that she's the one behind the murder plans. 133 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,440 Precisely. 134 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,000 We know what she said about that before. But we can... 135 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:11,600 Write that we're now going through further evidence, those text messages. 136 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,480 There are things we need to talk to her about. 137 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,960 Helge now says that it was Asa who sent the text messages to him, 138 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,800 that he then forwarded to you. 139 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,480 I don't know if it was like that. 140 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:32,760 But... 141 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,400 I know they fitted very well 142 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:43,560 with what Helge and I talked about. 143 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,960 I would get text messages 144 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,600 about those details straight after. 145 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,840 To me, Asa is the Bride of Christ, 146 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,640 she sentenced me to hell. 147 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:07,280 I had no contact with her. I don't know what she knows about me. 148 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,800 But it was me and Helge who had the contact. 149 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,840 How much of this could you talk about at trial? 150 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:22,800 I am happy that I... could manage 151 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,120 to talk about Helge. 152 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,800 And then I said it like it was. 153 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:38,040 But then what I couldn't say fully... 154 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,960 It was the immense power Asa had. 155 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,120 Everything was about... 156 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,080 Asa's death sentence over my life. 157 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,280 Is Asa's responsibility legal or moral? 158 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:06,920 I don't know if she has a legal responsibility, I can't answer that. 159 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:15,080 But when you judge people so harshly... 160 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,960 how you treat others... 161 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,640 That's something you're responsible for. 162 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,000 I feel Asa has a moral responsibility 163 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,960 for how she has treated others. 164 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,200 Because Jesus hadn't come we lived in a state of anxiety. 165 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:58,840 And until she came to Him, we lived in a kind of pretend world. 166 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,840 And of course, weeks became months, and months became years. 167 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,120 Naturally, this was extremely frustrating for her 168 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,400 since she held on to this belief. 169 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,320 Because that's what it was, a belief about who she was. 170 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,120 Jesus didn't come to Asa because of something. 171 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,560 It was someone's fault, not hers. 172 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:31,000 People were hindering Jesus's return. 173 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,200 Many of us close to her were told that it was our fault. 174 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,520 The wall protecting her was not secure. 175 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:55,360 Since she was who she was, she knew best what Jesus wanted. 176 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,680 We used to joke about her not liking white, white was not a color. 177 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,920 She wanted color and life, that's what was best for all. 178 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,720 If she wanted to decorate my home she was giving me her blessing, 179 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:20,200 because she knows what's best for me, even if I might not see it. 180 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,480 No one would stand up to her and say, "But I don't want this." 181 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,480 Or, "I don't think that this is right." 182 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:33,440 If you did, you would be questioning the Queen of Heaven and that is wrong. 183 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,560 It started with her repainting Helge's house afterwards. 184 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,200 It was as if she was painting over the terrible things that had happened. 185 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,880 The first strokes of the paint brush on the new house. 186 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,760 This continued and escalated. 187 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,520 She was redecorating every house in the congregation. 188 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,120 It became an unspoken privilege that she was helping us. 189 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,440 I was thinking of putting blue around the window. 190 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,280 I used to imagine the congregation as her doll's house, 191 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,080 where she would put the dolls in the rooms she chose. 192 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,160 And she redecorated as she pleased and dressed them as she wanted. 193 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,600 And played with us. 194 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:49,120 Saturday was her party day, a time to celebrate. 195 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,760 Sometimes it was fun and we had a good time, 196 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,920 but very often there were many very negative conversations 197 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,080 about those who were wrong. 198 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,720 With a bit of luck it wasn't you, but someone else. 199 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:16,880 She was often angry with me because I was too uptight... or too scared. 200 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,680 "You look scared" and stuff like that. 201 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:25,480 - That's not a video camera, is it? - Yes, it's rolling. 202 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,960 If I was scared she must be nasty and she wasn't, so I was at fault. 203 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,240 - I can smell burnt popcorn here. - Sorry, it's my fault. 204 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,520 - Go into the light - I'll go into the light. 205 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,120 - Go under the sun. - Under the sun. 206 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,680 She wrestled me to the ground in the garden once 207 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,680 and sprayed me with the garden hose to make me less uptight, to relax a bit. 208 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,680 - She wrestled you to the ground? - Yes, it wasn't hard. 209 00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:01,120 I wasn't resisting. She took hold of me and pushed me to the ground 210 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,120 and then she took the hose and sprayed me with water. 211 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,520 We had been engaging, for many years, in a battle 212 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,920 in our belief of who Asa was and where she was going. 213 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,600 We were fed this for such long time. So in the end, you just buy all of it. 214 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:24,840 "Okay, sure, yes." Your inner compass is wiped out. 215 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,480 When she had sprayed me and helped me up again 216 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,360 and said, "Everything's fine now." She was relieved. It felt good. 217 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,240 She wasn't cross with me any longer. It was worth it. 218 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,240 It was like that a lot. 219 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,680 You took your punishment because things got easier after. 220 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,680 Saying this doesn't feel right or I don't think that this is right, 221 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,320 you suppressed everything that involved one's self, 222 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,560 because that was one's ego and one's ego was wrong. 223 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,760 You had to get rid of that. It would die from your life anyway. 224 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,840 In the end there was nothing of one's old self left. 225 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,600 Daddy come! It is so much fun! 226 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,360 - Is it really fun? - Yes! 227 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:16,880 Daddy, come! 228 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,080 Spending time with family was selfish. Time should be dedicated to God's work. 229 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,960 If I wanted to spend a weekend at home I had to express this in a certain way. 230 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,480 It wasn't enough to say I wanted to stay home. She wanted you to say, 231 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,880 "I'd rather be with you but I think I need to meet some people." 232 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,360 I needed an excuse for not being with her. 233 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,440 Early on, my ex-wife became wrong according to Asa. 234 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,920 I loved her and I wanted it to work with us being together. 235 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,680 So I struggled for quite some time to get Asa to understand 236 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,120 that there was nothing wrong with her and then Asa said to me, 237 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,120 "Either you follow your ex-wife or you follow God 238 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,920 and following God is the same as following me. Which will you choose?" 239 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,800 My whole life was built on doing everything for God. 240 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:33,160 That's what I had been taught. I didn't want to stop following God. 241 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,720 Our relationship became platonic, if you could even call it that. 242 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,960 I was almost always away. I was on The Hill all the time. 243 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:49,240 So it was terribly difficult for her and for me too, 244 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,560 but nothing compared to what she went through. 245 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,200 I was doing what I believed then to be more important. 246 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,320 - Do you remember? Pizza. - Pizza! 247 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,640 This is my pizza that I will eat. It's huge! 248 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,480 - Kalle, do I love you? - Yes. 249 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,440 How much? That much? Do you love me? 250 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,960 This much. 251 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:26,520 - Do you? - Yes. As much as you love me. 252 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,960 How then did your relationship with your children change? 253 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,240 As I said, I was rarely at home. 254 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,280 There was a long period when I couldn't sleep at home. 255 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:42,320 I stayed with different people in Knutby, my brother, Peter and Patrik. 256 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,960 Because I was wrong and it was said that I spoiled my children. 257 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:52,360 I cared too much about them. So I was rarely at home. 258 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,200 I met them on Sundays, after the meeting up until... 259 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,880 I had to be back in Knutby by 6:00 pm, so just a few hours. 260 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,760 - Hi, Daddy! Come a little closer. - No. 261 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:21,600 But... Oh, I can see your hair really well, Daddy. I zoomed in. 262 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,920 So you could say that I was a coward 263 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,600 and chose, in a way, to let her go. 264 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:44,440 But my frame of mind then was, my only chance is to do as Asa says. 265 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,200 She was the one who determined the future. 266 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:52,360 It wasn't just for me. I would ruin things for her. 267 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,080 She told me that I was hindering the return of Jesus. 268 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,480 "He can't come back because you're causing trouble." 269 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,680 And she wasn't talking about just me, 270 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,040 but about all of mankind suddenly, and it was my fault. 271 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,960 It sounds so crazy now. This is what I believed. 272 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,720 I believed that I was the one hindering the return of Jesus 273 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,440 and doing so by caring too much about my family. 274 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,040 I look forward to a new tomorrow 275 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:40,440 Urban expressed, "In this battle, are you willing to go there?" 276 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,160 That's roughly how he began. 277 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,680 And in his house were people who were more familiar 278 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,760 with what his battle entailed, and were more involved in it. 279 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,840 That's where he approached me, 280 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,560 "You will become closer to me in the battle for Asa. 281 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:08,080 You have a more important role in Asa's meeting Jesus." 282 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,840 Jesus! Jesus! 283 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,800 Life! Happiness! 284 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,720 To cut a long story short, I was given an ultimatum. 285 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,960 Or rather, there's only one way, to end my relationship with Patrik 286 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,920 and have a relationship with Urban. 287 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,920 That's what's important for the final battle and Asa. 288 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,680 And with that battle, what do you do? 289 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,760 Well... 290 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,440 - This is so difficult. - I understand that. 291 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:58,880 But it... 292 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:05,320 There's only one way of saying it. In short, it was sex. 293 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,680 I can't say it another way. 294 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,920 When I realized that I was losing her, I couldn't do anything about it, 295 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,120 because we weren't married. There was no proof we were together. 296 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,120 I got a taste of what it was like to be in a secret relationship. 297 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:43,400 So I was powerless as I watched how she was taken from me. 298 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,640 That's how it was for me. 299 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,600 A few years into this, my wife was considered wrong. 300 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,840 And I was taught a lesson. 301 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,680 Asa demanded that I express enormous hate towards my own wife 302 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,080 and scold and humiliate her in front of Asa. 303 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,600 I was to physically throw Emma out of the house. 304 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,920 Peter came home only for short visits. He was away all the time. 305 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,840 I had to look after the house and kids. I was left alone. 306 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,640 There was no warmth, no love... It was just very cold. 307 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:47,440 I was thinking, "You must put God first and everything else falls into place." 308 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,480 Unfortunately, that was my way of thinking. 309 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,080 And this is so contradictory. 310 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,120 While I was feeling so bad in here there was nothing for me out there. 311 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,840 There was nothing to go back to. That was how I felt. 312 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,680 I had no friends left either. 313 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,360 I had been living with this anxiety for so long, I couldn't take anymore. 314 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:27,200 The only way for me to get on the right side of God was for Asa to say, 315 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,600 "It's all right now." But what if she never says that? 316 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,160 I felt she never would say that. It will never be alright. 317 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,840 Urban will never say it's all right. 318 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,160 I went through a long period of being constantly scolded. 319 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,960 I was told that I was worse than Helge. 320 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:49,200 I was filled with the spirit of the Anti-Christ that goes against Jesus. 321 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,120 It wasn't okay to take your life. That was worse than being wrong. 322 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,840 That would be irrevocable and you could never do anything about it. 323 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,440 But sometimes I drove way too quickly. 324 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,240 I thought, "If I have an accident and I die, 325 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,000 then I haven't taken my life. It's just an accident." 326 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,800 It was on a Saturday, if I remember correctly. 327 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,960 I went up to The Hill. 328 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:26,920 When I arrived, something had already begun. 329 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,520 We stood in their kitchen at the far end of the house 330 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,320 and they were all standing around me and being really aggressive. 331 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,040 And there's shouting and roaring, 332 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,240 "Pull yourself together. You need to shape up. 333 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,200 What's your problem anyway? Why are you like this?" 334 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,720 From their point of view, they're trying to get me to wake up. 335 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,320 And what Patrik says is, "Johan, straighten up. 336 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,200 Focus on God. Seek God. Raise your hands and praise God. 337 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,120 That's not too much to ask for. It's simple. 338 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,920 But you have to choose to do it." 339 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,040 I knew how Urban would behave in this situation. 340 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,000 I knew I'd be meeting him that night. I knew that he would corner me. 341 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,080 "Why haven't you sorted this out?" 342 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,120 While these thoughts are going through my head I become frustrated. 343 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,000 And I'm looking at Johan in the corner and I can see how dejected he is. 344 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,720 I hear Patrik say, "These are simple things. Raise your hands." 345 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,240 I tried to leave. I just wanted to get away from there. 346 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,400 And that's when I go... 347 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280 crazy. 348 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,400 So... 349 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,280 I go for Johan and start slapping and punching him. 350 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,160 "Come on, get up!" 351 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,200 I... run. 352 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Then Peter runs after me. I get in the car and start it. I'm leaving. 353 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,880 Some of us ran through the garden. Four or five of us ran after him. 354 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,560 He drags me out of the car. 355 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,680 I push him in the chest, "Come on!" 356 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:19,040 I had long hair at the time so he forces me to my knees and drags me in. 357 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,800 He crawls in and I grab hold of this ponytail 358 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,360 and pull him, or lead him like a dog on a leash. 359 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,000 "You will crawl to her. You will humble yourself." 360 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,080 So I had to crawl to her from the car and beg for mercy. 361 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:49,880 If Johan had managed to leave he would have been lost forever. 362 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,720 I'm thinking that I did something good. I just saved his life. 363 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,520 In one way, I convicted myself when I went to the police. 364 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,560 Three people in the well-known Knutby congregation 365 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,360 have been reported to the police, reports TV4 News. 366 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,240 Behind me is the building that the Knutby congregation uses. 367 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,880 This year, congregation numbers have dropped drastically 368 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,160 from about 100 to just 15 people. 369 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,520 The Knutby community speak of manipulation and violence, 370 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,760 where former pastor Asa Waldau the Bride of Christ, has a central role. 371 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,560 Her aggressive outbursts and circle of submissive followers 372 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,280 provoked distaste among congregation members. 373 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,400 Reports of beatings and sexual exploitation 374 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,400 are reminiscent of the sex scandals that Helge Fossmo was involved in. 375 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,800 The beginning of the end 376 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,640 was the conversation we have with this 17-year-old girl. 377 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,920 It was very clear that this was serious. 378 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,000 After an hour Urban comes out and he asks to talk to me. 379 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,880 He takes me aside and says, "There's big trouble. Stand by me." 380 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,800 Urban sat right in front of me, a half meter away, on the floor, 381 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,320 like a sad dog. 382 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:46,120 Then I explode. So angry with him, "What do you think you're doing?" 383 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,480 You've exploited a 17-year-old girl. Are you completely stupid? 384 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,560 This was the final straw. 385 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,880 This is Urban, a married man, a pastor 386 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,880 who has a sexual relationship with an underage girl for a battle for Asa. 387 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,440 She's just one of several women he has sexual relationships within this battle. 388 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,960 And this is what leads to the collapse of Knutby Philadelphia. 389 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,520 After 97 years the Philadelphia congregation in Knutby is dissolved. 390 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,720 The decision was taken by the few remaining members, 391 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,600 reports the newspaper, Dagen. 392 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,280 I have today begun legal proceedings against three former pastors, 393 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,680 in the now defunct Knutby Philadelphia congregation. 394 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,040 One is Pastor Asa Waldau, formerly known as the Bride of Christ, 395 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,560 who has been reported for assault. 396 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:51,320 There's been a culture of punishing members who've lapsed in their belief. 397 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:57,720 According to the prosecutor, the assaults had become so common 398 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,200 that the victims find it hard to remember specific incidents. 399 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:07,160 Well, it's so obvious when I meet former members and members now 400 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,360 that they weren't aware. 401 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,680 Sometimes one spouse didn't know what the other was doing. 402 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,960 Not their neighbors or friends either. 403 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,320 They were wrapped up in their own turmoil 404 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,640 with their own secret, dependent on those who were superior. 405 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,440 Many on the outside believed after Helge Fossmo and Sara Svensson 406 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,440 were convicted to prison and psychiatric care respectively 407 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,600 that this was a normal congregation and it wasn't. 408 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,440 The trial of three former Knutby pastors began in Uppsala District Court today. 409 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,680 Asa Waldau is charged with assaulting several congregation members 410 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,760 of the now defunct congregation. 411 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,600 The investigation was initiated when Pastor Peter Gembäck went to the police 412 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,200 and told them what he and the others had done. 413 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,800 A third pastor is charged with sexually exploiting a young girl 414 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,600 in the congregation what he called "care for the soul." 415 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,080 Go ahead. 416 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,120 Urban Fält has sexually exploited Plaintiff A who was 17 years old 417 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,400 and in a position of dependency to him. 418 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,160 Peter Gembäck's crimes against Johan Grimborg are as follows, 419 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,440 assault by slapping him across the face several times and by punching his body. 420 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,160 Unlawful restraint by holding him down 421 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,840 and while grabbing his hair, forcing him to crawl ten meters. 422 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,680 Asa... has in her home in Gränsta, Uppsala 423 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,680 intentionally assaulted Plaintiff B as follows. 424 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,240 Assault by biting her in the face. Assault by kicking her in the stomach. 425 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,400 Assault by taking hold of her head and banging it against the wall repeatedly. 426 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,960 Assault by hitting her on the head with a hairbrush and pulling her hair. 427 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,760 Asa... has assaulted Plaintiff A 428 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,720 by knocking her to the ground and stamping on her, 429 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,240 scratching her body and biting her neck, 430 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,560 pulling her hair, causing pain and redness. 431 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,000 I knew that Plaintiff A was waiting for me in Maria's bedroom 432 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,160 and I knew that I was thinking about her age and all that, 433 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,800 but I told myself not to think of her as too young, 434 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,320 or that she can't do what's expected of her because she's young. 435 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,880 All I remember is that I... 436 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280 I have oral sex with her first 437 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,600 and then I pulled my trousers down, half-way I think, 438 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,440 and start having intercourse. 439 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,560 We're sitting on our bed, and this conversation goes on for hours. 440 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:04,360 I see the panic in her eyes, "No, I mustn't talk about this." 441 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,600 And I say: "What is it?" It was like she couldn't physically say it. 442 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,760 "I can't tell anyone this." She told herself, 443 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,720 "I did it for Jesus. I did this for Asa." This mantra. 444 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,160 The moment she put it into words, 445 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,720 when I hear those words, my whole world falls apart. 446 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:37,080 And then we talk about what to do next. What do we do now? 447 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,480 Our firm belief was that Asa is the Bride of Christ. 448 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,880 Since Asa is someone who loves the truth more than anything, 449 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:50,200 we must tell her the truth. So I run as fast as I can to Asa 450 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,000 and when I enter the room the first thing she says is, 451 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,240 "You've got to save Urban. I'm going to lose Urban too." 452 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,880 Meaning how she had lost Helge. 453 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,920 It's like a déja vu experience. 454 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,360 This is exactly the same as it was with Helge and Sara. 455 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,080 Helge had done nothing wrong. It was all Sara. 456 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:13,480 There isn't just one Sara now. 457 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,320 This 17 year old is to blame. The other women are to blame. 458 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,280 - Ester, here. A letter for you. - No. 459 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,640 Since you didn't want to be interviewed I thought you might read this letter. 460 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:07,760 You say that A could be exposed to murder. I don't understand that. 461 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,240 I explained that, considering our history, 462 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,280 to lie or go behind someone's back, 463 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,520 this has resulted in a murder. It's dangerous. 464 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,840 - Did you say that to A? - We talked about it. 465 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,960 How did she react to this information? 466 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,120 - I don't remember. - Have you no memory of it at all? 467 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,240 No, but this was something we talked about every now and then, 468 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920 since we talked often about what had happened. 469 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,280 The murder in 2004 was like the basis 470 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,480 for everything we did and everything we were protecting. 471 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:48,480 But that was a long time ago. Why the need to discuss this with A? 472 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,640 We lived in the same context. Our line of reasoning was the same. 473 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,400 We're on our way home, time is running out. Jesus is coming soon. 474 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,840 It hasn't happened yet. That was my line of thinking. 475 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,320 This was our theory. The same explanation as we had then, 476 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:12,720 what we saw as a spiritual battle, so it wasn't strange that we said this. 477 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:18,680 Our theory was that this was a battle. 478 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:37,720 Back in 2003 it was as if any minute, 479 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,080 of any day the world could end. 480 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,680 It does something to your mind. 481 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,720 To live in Asa's world, to be accepted by her... 482 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,400 It is as if you have your loved ones, your family... 483 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:07,000 You have everything that you... want in life. 484 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:12,720 And to be wrong in Knutby is like losing someone. 485 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,120 Completely irreversibly. 486 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,120 It is horrifically strong emotions. 487 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,040 You do anything to be good again. 488 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:32,040 And this feeling, "I'll do anything", 489 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,440 is placed on Asa. 490 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:44,840 I think it was in the autumn or winter of 2015. 491 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:51,680 She keeps hitting me. She's in a rage. She's extremely angry. 492 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,960 I'm on my hands and knees. My earrings come flying off. 493 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,720 And I panic because she gave me those earrings. 494 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:10,360 So I'm lying on the floor. It's dark so I use my phone for light. 495 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,960 I think Kajsa helped me look for them. 496 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,240 And I thought that this was awful also. 497 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:26,000 Because suddenly, someone is kind enough 498 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:32,640 to help me search and I didn't want Kajsa to help me, 499 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,160 because I was nasty and stupid, terribly stupid. 500 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,840 Because Asa had to go to these extremes to chastise me. 501 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:48,040 And I didn't want Kajsa to have to help me because I was wrong. 502 00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:01,760 I wish I could adequately describe the panic I felt when Asa beat me. 503 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:07,200 In one way it was... It wasn't the beatings as such. 504 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,040 The worst part was hearing you were wrong and nasty towards her, 505 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,320 refusing to relent, being rebellious. 506 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,800 She had at least five talks with me every day 507 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,160 about how disgusting I am, how awful I am. 508 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,680 I let her down and I'm a really bad person. 509 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:40,160 I had the chance of a lifetime. I was worthless. 510 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,160 I cry in my bed for a whole year. I can't get out of my bed. 511 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,120 I'm not allowed to go to a doctor. I'm not allowed to say I'm depressed 512 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,560 and that I'm not eating and that I'm not sleeping. 513 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:58,960 I'm banished from the community. 514 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,080 And then Asa takes my daughter. 515 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,440 I'm not allowed to keep her. 516 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,440 And she's not allowed to call me mum. 517 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,920 She's told that I'm a traitor, "Your mother is on her way to hell. 518 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,400 She's a disgusting person. You're not allowed to call your home, home." 519 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,880 And it's... 520 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:47,040 There is a view that you can raise your hand to others, 521 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,000 according to the Old Testament. 522 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,800 But there's a New Testament. 523 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,640 There's love and goodness in Jesus and God too. 524 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,640 Why not use that method instead? 525 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,680 Why not get the message across verbally? Why physical violence? 526 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,440 I don't know. 527 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,920 Have you difficulty controlling your anger? 528 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:13,760 No. 529 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:20,760 Kristina tells us here that you attack her. 530 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:26,320 The violence you subject her to takes her completely by surprise. 531 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,920 She says that you hit her on the head, 532 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:37,800 and that you scratch her body, bite her neck and pull her hair. 533 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,080 And she urinates on herself. 534 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,880 Are you saying that you didn't notice 535 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,200 how terrified she was that she urinated on herself? 536 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,160 - I didn't notice that. - Don't you remember it? 537 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,160 - I remember hitting her across the face. - You've said that, yes. 538 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,520 I don't remember the rest. I can't even relate to it. 539 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:16,840 When I was in the psychiatric ward, if anyone said anything bad about Asa... 540 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,800 I would start crying and say stop! 541 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,920 Don't say that. 542 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,040 She hears it. She can hear it! 543 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,840 And I was terrified. I thought she was beyond human. 544 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,960 Was there a moment you felt a release? 545 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,440 I remember... 546 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,880 I was locked away in an isolation room. 547 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,600 I couldn't meet anyone. 548 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,560 I couldn't meet anyone, no news, 549 00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:00,120 no reading newspapers, no TV. 550 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,120 When I was completely alone in that tiny room, 551 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,320 it was as if it hit me then. 552 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,360 A nurse came in saying, 553 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:18,920 "I'm so sorry, Sara, that you can't join... 554 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:24,760 While the other patients are celebrating midsummer out here." 555 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,240 But there and then I felt euphoric. 556 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,800 I just felt, "Now, finally I'm free! I am free!" 557 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,080 In this room I am so free. 558 00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:46,160 I can think what I want. I can do what I want. 559 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,880 I can be who I want. 560 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,800 I am free. 561 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,400 In this room I own myself. 562 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,160 Tell me, what have you found? 563 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,120 I can see how Asa, Helge and Sara communicated with each other. 564 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,520 But if Helge wants to use this as evidence 565 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,320 there should be a very clear link. 566 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,240 That just before he sends a text message to Sara, 567 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,040 he should have received one from Asa. 568 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,600 Yes, there should be a clear link 569 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,880 that he receives a message just before he sends one to her. 570 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,480 - Does he? - No, there's nothing. 571 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,360 - So he's lying then. - The problem is, we can't know that. 572 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:46,480 Because Asa had two mobile phones and one of them was never analyzed. 573 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,000 Okay, but we have Helge's phones. 574 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,880 We can check his incoming text messages. 575 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,480 I thought that too. 576 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,760 But I've now discovered, that 16 years ago, in 2004, 577 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,920 technology had its limitations. 578 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,040 To get a complete picture of text message exchanges, 579 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,160 you need both the sender and the receiver. 580 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,480 In order to find out if Asa texted Helge, 581 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,000 you would need the data from Asa's phone. 582 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,080 There could be more data on Helge's phone than we can see here 583 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:21,400 - since we don't have Asa's data. - Yes. 584 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,240 - That's crazy. - That's how it was back then. 585 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,120 We can request them. We have her number. 586 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,520 I did that. But the problem is, it's no longer possible. 587 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,480 They've been deleted? 588 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,440 The police didn't request the data back then. 589 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,720 I've even called the operators, but to no avail. 590 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,240 Yes. 591 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,520 You've compiled a digital version of this stack. You've been through it all. 592 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,240 We've gone further than anyone else in following this lead, 593 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,400 yet we still can't say what happened. 594 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,120 No, that's right. 595 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,000 Even though Helge says the evidence is there and we can't find it, 596 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,360 it still doesn't prove that he's is lying. 597 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,480 Correct. 598 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,120 Crazy. 599 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:21,200 There must be records of text messages from Asa somewhere. 600 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:27,160 This happened with Alexandra's mobile phone data that was restored. 601 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:32,040 There were texts from Asa that weren't in the lists. 602 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,320 For some reason, her text messages weren't there. 603 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,360 We don't know how much data exists. 604 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,360 We just know what we get from the police. 605 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,120 So we will never know if we got all the data, 606 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,280 or if it is complete. But based on what we have, 607 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,760 we cannot see any link in this data. 608 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,280 - No. - You can't... 609 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,320 We cannot say that there's systematic evidence 610 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,040 that Helge receives texts from an instigator that he then forwards. 611 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,120 We can't see that. 612 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,920 All the evil, the problems, the misery, the abuse, 613 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:27,480 everything that Knutby was accused of was because of me. 614 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:35,760 The interesting thing is, it got seven times worse after I left. 615 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,640 You would imagine when this kind of thing happens 616 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,800 that it would be an eye-opener. 617 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,600 That they would have done some soul-searching, 618 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,640 "What went wrong? What are we doing wrong?" 619 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:54,280 But by saying that Helge caused it all and now he's gone, 620 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,760 they didn't have to change anything. 621 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:02,240 And if it was because of me then it would not have continued like it did, 622 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,480 and escalated and gotten out of hand. 623 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:11,040 Nevertheless, it must be said that people stopped dying when 624 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,480 after this, so... 625 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,720 Seven times worse in one way, 626 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,120 but there were no further deaths. Do you understand what I mean? 627 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:29,080 Yes, it would have been interesting if there had been... serial deaths 628 00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:32,640 where people were dying annually and this had ceased. 629 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,880 But that's not the reality of it. 630 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,280 In 2004, two people in this congregation were sick. 631 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,000 That is, Sara and Helge. 632 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,160 The others were in a completely different world. 633 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,120 But now a whole congregation is saying, 634 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,600 "We were a part of this sect. It was not healthy. It was not good." 635 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,720 And I'm thinking too, looking back, 636 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,000 we criticize the police because they don't address this sect issue. 637 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,320 But the question is, 638 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,120 what could they have said then if the police had asked them? 639 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,280 Many of the sect members probably wouldn't have been able to, 640 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:48,800 even if they tried, since they were sure that it was the next life that mattered. 641 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,720 They were on their way there. 642 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:56,440 But the pressure chamber is open now and this brain-washing is wearing off. 643 00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,680 And now we have a group of people 644 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,480 that for the past 20 years in certain cases 645 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:08,280 have violated themselves, crushed their own egos and lost their sense of self. 646 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:13,520 And they have to find themselves again. The question is, what will they find? 647 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,680 What will they discover? What will be revealed? 648 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,200 The man charged with assault and illegal threats 649 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,360 was given a suspended sentence together with day fines. 650 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,160 The second man, for sexual exploitation of a dependent person 651 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,200 to a suspended sentence and 160 hours community service. 652 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,520 Two copies of the Knutby verdict, please. 653 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,200 The District Court has convicted the woman on eight counts of assault 654 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,600 and freed her on six counts of assault. 655 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:54,200 She was given a suspended sentence and 120 hours community service. 656 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,720 You mentioned that you don't have any contact with Asa. 657 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,760 What would you say to her if you could? 658 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,480 I wish she could understand how her words 659 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,440 have had consequences in so many ways. 660 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:22,760 I'm one person who paid a high price 661 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,800 by being in Knutby and following her. 662 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,000 In relation to my family, my old friends, 663 00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:33,320 it has affected so many people, and I'm just one of say, a hundred. 664 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,200 And each one of us has a story to tell. 665 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,600 What's that? 666 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,440 A letter from Asa. 667 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,520 "Hi, you've been trying to contact me in different ways. 668 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,640 I'm not interested in taking part. It doesn't matter what I say anyway. 669 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,280 It will be edited to suit the media's story and commenting on 670 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,240 or denying other people's statements and experiences is meaningless. 671 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,720 It's impossible for me to explain something 672 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,920 that I'm processing and grieving over. 673 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,800 It would also mean exposing people I loved 674 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,000 and believed I was living in unity with. I won't do that. 675 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,640 Furthermore, addressing defamation and insults from Helge and Sara 676 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,640 is just too much. My family and I find this too difficult. 677 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,600 Yours sincerely, Asa." 678 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,560 Now we know where she stands in any case. 679 00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:07,200 Yes and we must respect that. She's always said that Helge is lying. 680 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,960 I was completely prepared to... 681 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:38,200 If I had received a message saying shoot yourself... 682 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,760 I would have done it. 683 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:48,480 - Do you mean that? - Yes, I mean it. 684 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,720 I didn't exist. 685 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,600 I was... a shell, a robot, 686 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:05,200 I was annihilated, so... nullified. 687 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,560 A few years back, I thought about... 688 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,800 This is so difficult to talk about... 689 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:23,200 When I thought about Alexandra's reaction... 690 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:30,440 to the first shot... 691 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:35,800 There was nothing. Nothing. 692 00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:42,800 Because it hit the hip and there was no reaction. 693 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:49,520 How can that be, I don't understand? 694 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:55,640 Now I can see and feel that... 695 00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:04,560 Then I thought it was on me, but now, it's like... 696 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:11,320 Wait a second. How could it be? Why did she not move? 697 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:17,760 Wait, that she could have...? What do you mean Sara? 698 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,600 I don't know. 699 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:28,400 I don't know if she was alive or not. 700 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:34,360 Maybe she wasn't alive when I got there. I don't know.